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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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The Empire doesn't need pirates to justify their actions; it has the Alliance to do that. And shipping equals taxable revenue, which is a primary aspect of controlling space. They may allow some piracy for the reasons you describe, but only until the pirate predations give them an excuse to come in and take over, at which point the pirates will be destroyed or driven off.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Mikael Hasselstein
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Joined: 20 Jul 2011
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that word-of-mouth would be the more realistic channel. I figured Doug was asking a technology question.
| crmcneill wrote: | Something I have been meaning to mention is that, according to the Thrawn trilogy, long range communications are disrupted by combat shields. On at least one occasion, it was specifically mentioned that a HoloNet link was interrupted when a Star Destroyer brought its shields up.
This ties in with my inclusion of the Comm Relay module for the Modular Taskforce Cruiser, in that it could be used to maintain long range comms contact for a line or squadron engaged in battle. However, IIRC, Heir to the Empire mentions that subspace comms may be disrupted as well. |
Good point to bring up. Can you get us the passages that deal with this?
A line would probably not need subspace. They could communicate by radio wave/high-powered comlink. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Mikael Hasselstein wrote: | | Can you get us the passages that deal with this? |
Not at the moment; I'm on the road and away from my books. However, I can give you general locations. The first is in Heir to the Empire, in the aftermath of the Bpfassh raid, where Han comes to get Leia for the flight out to survey the damage. He mentions that they must have some new subspace booster to cut through interference.
The other is in the opening pages of The Last Command, when Thrawn is issuing final orders to his Star Destroyer captains before the raid. The narrative specifically mentions that one of the captains' Holonet signal cut up as the ship raised its shields.
| Quote: | | A line would probably not need subspace. They could communicate by radio wave/high-powered comlink. |
My thinking for the comm relay ship was that there would be instances where ships would need to coordinate their actions across great distances while still engaged in combat (i.e. with shields up). One possible use would be coordinating with Interdictors by sending them the courses of ships fleeing the battle zone.
The problem, however, is that, if shields block subspace transmissions as well, the Comm Relay ship will need to be within standard Comm range, which will put it close enough to the battle zone to potentially make it a target. My initial concept involved having the ship sit a few dozen light years outside the combat zone, maintaining a subspace link with the combat ships, retransmitting their messages, and relaying incoming messages in return. So, if the shields block subspace, too, I will need to rethink the concept.
As an aside, does the Holonet / Hypercomm function in hyperspace? IIRC, the Black Fleet Crisis stated that ships in hyperspace were blind and deaf, but I also vaguely recall a scene from the Clone Wars where a Holonet conversation was occurring while the ship was in hyperspace. If the Black Fleet assertion is correct, is it possible that ships with Holonet capability can send and receive simple messages while in hyperspace?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14030
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: |
Yeah, but the Empire has goals other than keeping the shipping going. One of their main goals is to remain in power. One way to help do that is to convince people that they are needed to protect against other threats -such as pirates. If they got rid of all the pirates, then people would feel safe and start to wonder why they need a big Imperial Fleet.
I suspect the Empire has some sort of clandestine relationship going with some pirates. Perhaps they tip off the pirates to what systems they might be turning a blind eye to, so that they can use the pirates to their own advantage.
Anti-Imperial systems get left to fend for themselves while good loyal systems do get hit by pirates as much. |
Exactly.. They are just like any corrupt govt. They allow a certain amt of criminal activity to go on, and periodically bust up some gangs (pirates) for the public view that 'we are fighting crime'..
| Quote: | | As an aside, does the Holonet / Hypercomm function in hyperspace? IIRC, the Black Fleet Crisis stated that ships in hyperspace were blind and deaf, but I also vaguely recall a scene from the Clone Wars where a Holonet conversation was occurring while the ship was in hyperspace. If the Black Fleet assertion is correct, is it possible that ships with Holonet capability can send and receive simple messages while in hyperspace? |
I just looked in the cracken's threat dossier to see if anything was mentioned for the black fleet crisis area, but i saw nothing, though i too remember that from the novels.
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DougRed4
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Joined: 18 Jan 2013
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Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:43 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the feedback, fellas.
To answer Mikael's question: I thought I'd got the idea of the Falkan Expanse and the pirate ship called the Rainmaker from the adventure ideas in the 1E rules, but it doesn't look like it's there. I might have just made it up; I don't honestly remember.
So I just placed it in the Outer Rim (coordinates P-18, in the made-up Toovar sector).
It sounds like things like word of mouth and infochants would be a more appropriate method of getting this word out. Perhaps I'll allow them to intercept a general message from a subspace relay station that will pique their interest. It could hint towards something, and lead them to a habitable planet, where they can then get the info from black market types.
And I agree that the Empire wouldn't completely ignore something like this, especially if it got too far out of control. But our campaign is in the very early days of the Rebellion, so these pirates are taking advantage of the fact that the Empire is newly preoccupied with this new rebellion on its hands.
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Mikael Hasselstein
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Joined: 20 Jul 2011
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Mikael Hasselstein wrote: | | Can you get us the passages that deal with this? |
Not at the moment; I'm on the road and away from my books. However, I can give you general locations. |
I remember the occasion, but I don't currently own a copy of the book. Someone else will have to look it up, or we'll just have to wait. However, I thought that the first incident was when the Noghri were using comm jammers. I don't recall the second incident.
| crmcneill wrote: | | My initial concept involved having the ship sit a few dozen light years outside the combat zone, maintaining a subspace link with the combat ships, retransmitting their messages, and relaying incoming messages in return. So, if the shields block subspace, too, I will need to rethink the concept. |
Yes - that's why I'm interested in what the books say. I'm actually quite surprised by how underdeveloped communications is in the SW gameworld.
| crmcneill wrote: | | As an aside, does the Holonet / Hypercomm function in hyperspace? IIRC, the Black Fleet Crisis stated that ships in hyperspace were blind and deaf, but I also vaguely recall a scene from the Clone Wars where a Holonet conversation was occurring while the ship was in hyperspace. If the Black Fleet assertion is correct, is it possible that ships with Holonet capability can send and receive simple messages while in hyperspace? |
I don't know this story. Is there a reason that the particular ships that were blind and deaf were in some way prohibited from being connected to the hyperwave relay network or the HoloNet? Could it be that they were simply unable to access it? Subspace does not seem like a plausible form of communication for ships in hyperspace because even if you could transmit from hyperspace to subspace, you're going too fast for the subspace network to pick it up - kind of like trying to be connected on house-bound WiFi networks while driving in a car. |
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| Mikael Hasselstein wrote: |
I don't know this story. Is there a reason that the particular ships that were blind and deaf were in some way prohibited from being connected to the hyperwave relay network or the HoloNet? Could it be that they were simply unable to access it? Subspace does not seem like a plausible form of communication for ships in hyperspace because even if you could transmit from hyperspace to subspace, you're going too fast for the subspace network to pick it up - kind of like trying to be connected on house-bound WiFi networks while driving in a car. |
I saw the epsiode of Clone Wars, and yest they did have a conversation while in hyperspace. There was also a case where they were able to project thier route, see that they were going to crash into something and make an adjustment. I can dig up the episode for you guys if you wish.
As far a accessing the relay network. It would depend. Cell phones use a process known as "handshaking" for passing communications from one relay tower to another. It's fairly good, assuming the area has good coverage, not too much traffic, and not a lot of obstructions to block the signal. If not, the chances of dropping a call are high.
I suspect any sort of holonet while in hyperspace would use something similar. So it might be possible, but not everywhere. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| Mikael Hasselstein wrote: |
I'm actually quite surprised by how underdeveloped communications is in the SW gameworld.
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I'm not. Star Wars is about high action, and good vs. evil. Most gamers aren't going to be interested in the finer point of holocommunications, or the Empire's Order of Battle, or just what constitutes an entire legion of troops.
Besides, anything that WEG would have done on the subject would have been entirely speculation. There was very little information for them to go on in the OT. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: |
I saw the epsiode of Clone Wars, and yest they did have a conversation while in hyperspace. There was also a case where they were able to project thier route, see that they were going to crash into something and make an adjustment. I can dig up the episode for you guys if you wish.
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There are several things the clone wars cartoon has done, for dramatic' reasons, that would not work for the RPG. Plotting your route so you can see if you are going to crash would come up during the astrogation roll. BUT holo-projecting it while in hyperspace (which iirc is what happened in that ep) would not.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| Mikael Hasselstein wrote: | | I thought that the first incident was when the Noghri were using comm jammers. |
No, this was before that, in the context of discussing how the Empire had coordinated a three-prong hit-and-fade attack, with speculation that the Empire had some new subspace booster that could cut through battle interference.
| Quote: | | Is there a reason that the particular ships that were blind and deaf were in some way prohibited from being connected to the hyperwave relay network or the HoloNet? Could it be that they were simply unable to access it? |
That was the impression I got, that the ship's comms simply don't work in hyperspace. Personally, I'd be okay with some form of limited communication via the HoloNet while a ship was in hyperspace, but the details would need to be worked out.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | There are several things the clone wars cartoon has done, for dramatic' reasons, that would not work for the RPG. Plotting your route so you can see if you are going to crash would come up during the astrogation roll. BUT holo-projecting it while in hyperspace (which iirc is what happened in that ep) would not. |
I'm inclined to dismiss most references from the Clone Wars if they conflict with official material from the EU.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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Hence why i said what the cartoon does may not work for the RPG. Such as having force push lke a projectile that is dodgable, like Bolt of hatred is.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Hence why i said what the cartoon does may not work for the RPG. Such as having force push lke a projectile that is dodgable, like Bolt of hatred is. |
Agreed. As such, I tend to think that any sort of communication by a ship in hyperspace would be extremely limited in form. Essentially, only ships with HoloComm units could still send and receive messages (alternately, they might only be able to receive), and then only the limited bandwidth size available to HyperComm systems...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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I can agree with receiving. Perhaps that is how vader has gotten word to com out of hyperspace by the emperor.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I can agree with receiving. Perhaps that is how vader has gotten word to com out of hyperspace by the emperor. |
When was this?
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