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CRMcNeill
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 Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:38 am Post subject: Duinuogwuins and Fire Breath |
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There is mention in multiple EU sources of Duinuogwuins being capable of breathing fire (described variously as plasma or atomic fire), yet this is not reflected in their stats. I understand Duinuogwuins are rare, but if you have ever included one in a game, did you allow them to breathe fire, and if so, what rules did you use for it?
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cheshire
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:56 am Post subject: |
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what EU sources talk about them having fire breath?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | what EU sources talk about them having fire breath? |
Operation Elrood has an adventure with a Duinuogwuin that specifically mentions one breathing fire in space combat. Other sources appear to have run with the idea in the description of the Duinuogwuin Contention, which was mentioned in the WOTC Coruscant and the Core Worlds sourcebook, then expanded upon in the New Essential Chronology and Essential Atlas.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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TyCaine
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:18 am Post subject: |
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Operation Elrood page 16 has the following stats, treating it as a Starfighter weapon though listing it as one of the Duinuogwuin's Special Abilities:
Superheated Breath Weapon: Three times per standard week, Star Wing can expel a superheated breath weapon with a damage code of 7D (scale: starfighter), a space range of3/6/9, and an atmosphere range of 300/600/900 meters.
Although obviously this has little rules for it, doesn't classify it as an area effect, in effect treats it as a blaster.
[Edit]
Oh, and they have Breath Weapon 6D+2 listed under Dex
However, only 3 times per week? Not exactly your Dragon of fantasy realms..... 
T.C.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Ah. I didn't see that in Operation Elrood. Personally, I'd apply this to all Star Dragons, but base the weapon stats on the dragon's Strength code, so that the older and larger a dragon gets, the further it can shoot and the more damage it inflicts. And maybe, rather than limiting it to 3x per week, the dragon could have a dice pool for damage (like a Death Star superlaser).
It's true; the Duinuogwuin are not the equal of fantasy dragons, either in ability or appearance. They seem to be at their best when the GM makes a dragon Force Sensitive, then plays that for all it is worth
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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vanir
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:31 am Post subject: |
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Giving them a breath weapon usable in space does reduce the options on type, a sonic one would be useless.
But creatures can be larger scale than character, a big enough monster can be speeder or even starfighter scale, its strength for physical damage purposes rated as the higher scale. A Star Dragon wrapped around your ship tearing it apart can be pretty intimidating, especially if it's a couple of thousand years old and has 18D Force skills to boot.
The Millennium Falcon was almost destroyed by a space monster in ESB, it had a lucky escape. Imagine an ancient wyrm Star Dragon even half the size, then add intelligence and Force affinity (1 in 3).
The majority (2 in 3) are just semi-intelligent monsters sure. But half the smart/Force-using ones are evil... |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:25 am Post subject: |
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I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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cheshire
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. |
Duinuogwuins = potentially as dangerous as fantasy dragons.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. |
Duinuogwuins = potentially as dangerous as fantasy dragons. |
Agreed. Now if only they looked a little less silly...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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TyCaine
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Personally, I'd apply this to all Star Dragons, but base the weapon stats on the dragon's Strength code, so that the older and larger a dragon gets, the further it can shoot and the more damage it inflicts. And maybe, rather than limiting it to 3x per week, the dragon could have a dice pool for damage (like a Death Star superlaser). |
I like that idea, so Star Wing has a STR of 6D, and is using a range of 3/6/9, using that as a base something like this?
| Code: | Strength Space Range Atmos Range
4D 2/4/6 200/400/600
5D 3/5/8 250/500/750
6D 3/6/9 300/600/900
7D 4/7/10 350/700/1050
8D 4/8/12 400/800/1200
9D 5/9/12 450/900/1350
10D 5/10/15 500/1000/1500 |
Or better yet, to make it cleaner:
| Code: | Strength Space Range Atmos Range
<=4D 2/4/6 200/400/600
5D-6D 3/6/9 300/600/900
7D-8D 4/8/12 400/800/1200
>=9D 5/10/15 500/1000/1500 |
Not sure what other types off the top of my head, vanir's point about sonic weapons is valid, though Jango did use sonic mine's against Kenobi IIRC...
And scale of the creature... Star Wing is presumably starfighter scale, though it's not clear in the write up, I like the idea that some are different scales depending on age, would also mean a speeder or walker scale creature has a harder time and is more of a nuisance against a starfighter transport, whereas a Capital scale would potentially be devastating...
I also like the fact of allowing a pool of dice to use for damage, similar to the Death Star. Maybe based upon age of creature, the younger ones have a pool to use per week or few days, the older ones have a pool per 48 or 24 hours? They're using 7D as the damage, and 3x per week, so maybe a pool of 21D (at creature's scale so starfighter scale for Star Wing) which refreshes every week, or half week, or whatever.
And yes, an older Duinuogwuin would certainly be a force to be reckoned with, just like the older fantasy dragons...
T.C.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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How's about instead of fire breath, they have lightning (ION) breath>
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TyCaine
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | How's about instead of fire breath, they have lightning (ION) breath> |
of course! *slaps forehead*
Ok, so the following types of Breath Weapon so far (scale of damage to be based upon creature's size/age, amount of damage based upon how much 'spent' from pool):
Superheated Plasma = Laser/Blaster = Std Damage
Lightning Bolt = Ion Cannon = Ionization Damage
Pressurized Acid Breath = Special = Std Damage + 1D-4D damage per round for 3 rounds (scale same as attack, 1D-4D based upon age/size of creature) as the acid eats through the hull plating, shorter range (one less range band), possibly greater damage due to acid effect damage?
I know fantasy dragons also had ice breath, gas breath and so on, but they seem less likely in the setting we're aiming for.
T.C.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| TyCaine wrote: | | I like that idea, so Star Wing has a STR of 6D, and is using a range of 3/6/9, using that as a base something. |
I would lean more towards something open ended, so that the range and damage keep scaling up with the size of the dragon. That way the massive Great Wyrm-level dragons keep scaling up in potency as they age / increase in size.
| Quote: | | Not sure what other types off the top of my head, vanir's point about sonic weapons is valid, though Jango did use sonic mine's against Kenobi IIRC... |
After seeing the seismic charges in AOTC, it actually clarified some things for me. It has often been wondered in the fandom how concussion warheads work, as kinetic energy requires a transmitive medium, and would thus be ineffective in vacuum, except by direct contact. Jango's seismic charges showed differently. Based on that visual, I am of the opinion that seismic charges (and all concussion warhead weaponry) utilize a focused gravity wave to deliver kinetic energy to the target, thereby bypassing the necessity of a transmitive medium. Since Duinuogwuin are theorized to use natural repulsorlift generators in their bodies to achieve flight, one could make the step to allowing them to use it as a weapon.
| Quote: | | And scale of the creature... Star Wing is presumably starfighter scale, though it's not clear in the write up, I like the idea that some are different scales depending on age, would also mean a speeder or walker scale creature has a harder time and is more of a nuisance against a starfighter transport, whereas a Capital scale would potentially be devastating... |
I agree. I know in fantasy settings, dragon hatchlings are considered roughly on par with mid-level PCs while the oldest of the species have near God-like power. It works well to have them scale up from small to gargantuan.
| Quote: | | I also like the fact of allowing a pool of dice to use for damage, similar to the Death Star. Maybe based upon age of creature, the younger ones have a pool to use per week or few days, the older ones have a pool per 48 or 24 hours? They're using 7D as the damage, and 3x per week, so maybe a pool of 21D (at creature's scale so starfighter scale for Star Wing) which refreshes every week, or half week, or whatever. |
I would prefer something like a dice pool that recharges at a rate of, for example, 1D per hour. That way, a dragon can scale back his damage potential by not using a full strength blast, focusing it instead into multiple smaller blasts. There could also be "fuel" cost differences between point and area effect uses.
| Quote: | And yes, an older Duinuogwuin would certainly be a force to be reckoned with, just like the older fantasy dragons...
T.C. |
Most definitely. I've been using Warhammer 40k as a template to introduce fantasy races into the SWU, and what fantasy setting would be complete without massive, powerful, fire-breathing dragons?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Good point on potentially 'refulling their reserves'..
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