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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | The sparks group has a nice chart for what diff/bonus is given based on the average score of the people bein commanded compared to the # being coordinated.
Since i don't know how to do tables its a bit wonky.. but here it is. |
That chart is actually the coordination guide from 2E, which was left out of 2R&E in favor of the current system. It makes a good starting point, but (IMO) it would be more user friendly if it used number sets to define Command Difficulty, instead of individual numbers. On top of that, it caps the number of people who can be commanded at 1500, and there are ships in the SWU whose crew sizes go much higher than that. Plus, if a captain is commanding a ship, he won't necessarily be coordinating all of them at once; he may be giving specific orders to the various sections of the ships crew, with each of them performing a separate task under their division officers, all under the supervision of the captain. The 2E system doesn't offer clear ways to break a ship's crew down by division (apart from separating out gunners from regular crew).
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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I made a color coded version of the command bonus/difficulties tables from 2nd edition. I'm pretty sure I posted it someplace... I'll edit this post and see if I can add it in.
Scroll to the bottom to see them if you like.
For some reason I cannot post them, along to top line is the average skill level of those being commanded along with the number. The second table reflects bonus based on number.
On topic:
I like parts of mcneil's system; I like how they're quick and simple, but I think I'm in agreement that the existing rules should not be cast out so quickly. I like mcneil's list of command modifiers based on reputation & experience, I think those should be kept. However I think the bonuses based on number coordinated should be kept instead of the small bonus granted as he suggested. However, I think that a potent commander delegating to sub-commanders should grant them a bonus to their command roll, in this situation I think that mcneil's +/- 1D+2 makes for a great added push for the lower command skills of less authoritative commanders.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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As far as specific orders a captain might give, Battlefleet Gothic's rules for putting a ship under Special Orders offer some suggestions and possible rules:
All Ahead 1/3 - The captain orders the ship to Cautious Speed.
All Ahead 2/3 - The captain orders the ship to Cruising Speed.
All Ahead Full - The captain orders the ship to High Speed.
All Ahead Flank - The captain orders the ship to All-Out Speed.
All Stop - The captain orders the ship to come to a halt.
Come To New Heading - The captain orders the ship into a Maneuver.
Intercept Course - The captain orders the ship to pursue another ship.
Evasive Action - The captain orders the ship to maneuver to avoid enemy attacks.
Engage Booster Engines - Ship accelerates or decelerates at double normal rate.
Lock On - Delay fire to gain Preparing bonus
Concentrate All Fire - Coordinated fire for increased damage
Barrage Pattern - Coordinated fire for increased accuracy
EDIT: Angle Deflectors - Captain's Command bonus is added to any rolls to redirect shields.
Brace For Impact - Captain rolls his Command skill as a reaction against incoming fire. Power is redirected to shields, blast doors are closed, and the crew strap into their stations or hang onto something secure. The captain's Command bonus is added to the damage soak roll
Damage Report - The captain coordinates damage control and repair, adding his bonus to any Capital Ship Repair rolls.
EDIT: On My Mark - The captain may spread multiple Commands across several rounds, then activate them all simultaneously with a single order (avoiding the MAP penalties by issuing one Command per round, and also adding the Preparing bonus).
When commanding a line or squadron of similar ships, the line captain or commodore can use the following commands:
Break Formation - The captain orders the ships to break formation and operate independently.
Close Up Formation - The captain orders his squadron to return to squadron formation. Only ships in squadron formation can combine their weapons fire using the coordinated action rule.
Form Up - While in formation, the captain orders his ships to move in close to each other. This decreases their maneuverability, but allows them to overlap their shields for better defense.
Loosen Up - While in formation, the captain orders his ships to move farther apart, making them more vulnerable to damage, but gives them more room to maneuver.
Attack Formation - Formation optimized for cooperative engagement of multiple targets.
Strike Formation - Formation optimized for coordinated engagement of a single target.
Swarm Formation - Squadron splits into multiple smaller units to engage a single larger target from multiple directions, with the intent of overwhelming the target's defenses.
Screen Formation - Squadron places its ships around another ship in a protective formation.
EDIT: Battle Formation - Formation optimized for cooperative defense, giving ships bonuses to engage enemy vessels attacking other members of the squadron.
These are just some thoughts, as I am still working on rules and ways these could be better applied, but I feel there is something there. I would've posted this sooner, but I kept coming up with more ideas. Wherever possible, I used commands that were actually used in space combat in the films. Failing that, I defaulted to terms used in other sci-fi genres, or in modern military fiction.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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jmanski
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Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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So there's really not that many commands. Assign some difficulties and yer home free.
I think crew size for your base difficulty sounds better to me rather than hull code. Or maybe a base difficulty for each ship type?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | I made a color coded version of the command bonus/difficulties tables from 2nd edition. |
Very nice, and much easier to understand than the mono-chrome version found in the 2E rulebook. What methods have you used to try and post them on the Pit?
| Quote: | On topic:
I like parts of mcneil's system; I like how they're quick and simple, but I think I'm in agreement that the existing rules should not be cast out so quickly. |
It's not my goal to throw out the RAW completely; I just don't feel that the RAW adequately reflects combat command. The stats for ships do not accurately reflect how many people are being coordinated to perform a given task, and there is no structure in place for delegation of authority from the supervising character to intermediate managers. The RAW is fine for ad hoc organizations, but IMO, the crew of a combat ship is much more complex, better organized, trained and coordinated than 1500 guys with one guy yelling at them.
What I'd really like to see are rules for crew casualties based on the damage charts. The way I picture it, a ship that takes damage also takes a certain percentage of crew casualties (including Wild Dice results to reflect lucky escapes and freak accidents). As a ship's casualty percentage increases, so too does the difficulty to perform actions, and once the ship hits the minimum (as defined by the Skeleton Crew number), the ship does not have enough crew to operate, and is dead in space.
| Quote: | | However I think the bonuses based on number coordinated should be kept instead of the small bonus granted as he suggested. |
My problem here ties in with what I mentioned above. How do you generate the number of people being coordinated? How many crewmembers aboard a ship are involved with navigation? Astrogation? Shields? Engineering? The stats tell us how many gunners can be coordinated, but even they can only be coordinated by weapon and fire arc. If a Nebulon B has a combined crew of 920 (counting gunners), how do I decide how many people are being coordinated if the captain gives the order to angle deflector screens? The entire crew of 920 isn't being coordinated, just the Shield operations staff; the rest of the crew is involved in other duties. There is no official method available to tell us how many crew need to be coordinated to perform a given task.
I think it would be great if, under Crew Skills, at the end of every skill there was a number in parenthesis that told us how many crew need to be coordinated to perform that particular skill roll; that would tie in perfectly with the existing system. Unfortunately, nothing like that exists, and we are forced to make SWAGs to generate Command Difficulty numbers. The RAW for coordination is fine for small teams or starfighter squadrons, but it falls short for organized command of larger units.
| Quote: | | However, I think that a potent commander delegating to sub-commanders should grant them a bonus to their command roll, in this situation I think that mcneil's +/- 1D+2 makes for a great added push for the lower command skills of less authoritative commanders. |
It actually doesn't stop at +/- 1D+2. Basically, for every 3 points of roll success/failure, the bonus/penalty goes up by 1 pip. An open ended system like this allows for ships under the command of spectacular commanders like Thrawn to be far more effective than identical vessels commanded by less capable captains, as well as allowing ships under incompetent captains to be much less effective than average.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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jmanski
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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I see what you are getting at, crew wise. You want to differentiate between 20 people to shoot and 135 to repair the ship. I see your dilema.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | | So there's really not that many commands. Assign some difficulties and yer home free. |
Well, this is just what I could think of off the top of my head, starting with the Battlefleet Gothic Special Orders rules, so there may be more. The difficulties for actually performing the acts are pretty much all already covered in the RAW. The list is more to add some color to the character playing the starship captain.
| Quote: | | I think crew size for your base difficulty sounds better to me rather than hull code. Or maybe a base difficulty for each ship type? |
I can see adding some additional modifiers or steps. A military ship might be more disciplined than a civilian one, so its difficulty would be lower. Morale could be a factor, as well as the age of the ship. Additional steps could be factored in by dividing the existing steps into fifths (as each step is normally 5 points up anyway). An expanded list would look something like this:
Crew Size (including gunners) = Command Difficulty
1-19 = Very Easy (1)
20-39 = Very Easy (2)
40-59 = Very Easy (3)
60-79 = Very Easy (4)
80-99 = Very Easy (5)
100-279 = Easy (6)
280-459 = Easy (7)
460-639 = Easy (8)
640-819 = Easy (9)
820-999 = Easy (10)
1,000-2,799 = Moderate (11)
2,800-4,599 = Moderate (12)
4,600-6,399 = Moderate (13)
6,400-8,199 = Moderate (14)
8,200-9,999 = Moderate (15)
10,000-27,999 = Difficult (16)
28,000-45,999 = Difficult (17)
46,000-63,999 = Difficult (18)
64,000-81,999 = Difficult (19)
82,000-99,999 = Difficult (20)
100,000-189,999 = Very Difficult (21)
190,000-279,999 = Very Difficult (22)
280,000-369,999 = Very Difficult (23)
370,000-459,999 = Very Difficult (24)
460,000-549,999 = Very Difficult (25)
550,000-639,999 = Very Difficult (26)
640,000-729,999 = Very Difficult (27)
730,000-819,999 = Very Difficult (28)
820,000-909,999 = Very Difficult (29)
910,000-999,999 = Very Difficult (30)
1,000,000+ = Heroic (31 and up)
Using the previous examples and adjusting the difficulty gives the following results:
Super Star Destroyer (280,734) = Very Difficult (23)
Imperial I Star Destroyer (37,085) = Difficult (17)
MC80 Cruiser (5,402) = Moderate (13)
Victory I Star Destroyer (5,200) = Moderate (13)
Nebulon B Frigate (920) = Easy (10)
The more detailed Command difficulty list also paves the way for future expansion of combat command of ships into combat command for fighter squadrons and troop units, as well, but that's for the future, once the initial rules have been refined. This system would be used exclusively for command in combat, to keep things fun and fast paced and provide guidelines and rules so that player characters can command major units. The existing RAW for coordinated actions can be retained for organizing ad hoc groups and such, with the much lower coordination difficulties above representing groups that have been trained and disciplined to follow orders and work together, while the RAW coordination rules represent attempts to coordinate untrained personnel.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16172
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | | I see what you are getting at, crew wise. You want to differentiate between 20 people to shoot and 135 to repair the ship. I see your dilema. |
Exactly. IMO, I have two choices: 1) generate generic percentages (i.e. 2% navigation, 1% astrogation, 20% engineering, etc.) and apply the percentages to the crew total of each ship, as well as generating two separate percentage lists (one for military and civilian ships), plus the possibility of setting air wing staff apart from crew (ala troop capacity), or 2) find an acceptable technique to generate a base Command difficulty for all of a ship's actions, generate a list of possible modifiers, and proceed from there. Option 1 just sounded like too much work.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14030
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | jmanski wrote: | | I'm thinking of having a difficulty to command an action, such as "fire the cannons at X". |
My problem here is that telling someone to perform an act does not have the same difficulty as actually performing the act. If the captain gives the order "Target. Contact H185, bearing 327 mark 40. Fire as you bear", it is still the gunners who must roll Capital Ship Gunnery, not the captain. The captain must make a tactical decision as to what target to engage, and with which weapons (Tactics), and issue the appropriate command to his subordinates (Command), but I don't see how that would translate into the captain facing the same difficulty. IMO (and based on the proposed system), the captain's real challenges come into play when he has to give multiple Commands in a round, thereby racking up MAPs for every command he gives. If he is ordering the shields to be properly angled, the helmsman to steer an intercept course on a corvette, his turbolaser gunners to open fire on the corvette, his ion cannon gunners to open fire on a bulk freighter, and his laser cannon gunners to engage and drive off enemy starfighters, he's looking at a -4D MAP for performing 5 actions in the same round (-5D for six actions if he makes a Tactics roll). That's where I see the difficulties of Command coming into play. |
Which is why you have gunnery officers, bridge officers, etc... So the tasks of that are spread around.
| Quote: | | That chart is actually the coordination guide from 2E, which was left out of 2R&E in favor of the current system. I |
I knew i had seen it somewhere..
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Very nice, and much easier to understand than the mono-chrome version found in the 2E rulebook. What methods have you used to try and post them on the Pit?
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I tried copying the image location and posting it as an [img]
| Quote: | What I'd really like to see are rules for crew casualties based on the damage charts. The way I picture it, a ship that takes damage also takes a certain percentage of crew casualties (including Wild Dice results to reflect lucky escapes and freak accidents). As a ship's casualty percentage increases, so too does the difficulty to perform actions, and once the ship hits the minimum (as defined by the Skeleton Crew number), the ship does not have enough crew to operate, and is dead in space.
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In 2nd Edition R&E they have rules for crew damage in vehicle combat, we could use those numbers and apply it to a percentage of crew in the section, adding in scale bonus of the attacking ship.
| Quote: | | Exactly. IMO, I have two choices: 1) generate generic percentages (i.e. 2% navigation, 1% astrogation, 20% engineering, etc.) and apply the percentages to the crew total of each ship, as well as generating two separate percentage lists (one for military and civilian ships), plus the possibility of setting air wing staff apart from crew (ala troop capacity), or 2) find an acceptable technique to generate a base Command difficulty for all of a ship's actions, generate a list of possible modifiers, and proceed from there. Option 1 just sounded like too much work. |
Someone came up with a list of likely bridge crew positions required for operating capital ships, at least gunnery positions are already given to you. Also I've seen mention, I believe by Vanir about redundancy being factored into full crew numbers. Crew totals allow for 4 fully manned watches or perhaps 3. Giving you smaller, more realistic operating numbers for big ships. 37,085 / 4 is a much more reasonable number of bodies required to operate a ship 1km long.
Does anyone have any rough estimates of flat crew percentages that would seem reasonable? Which job roles are being filled would be a good starting point for figuring out crew distribution.
Command
Engineering
Medical
Security
Gunnery
Flight Operations
Navigation
Starfighter Corps
Those are the first that come to mind. I feel like I'm forgetting something. Flight operations I figure covers piloting, sensors, & communications. Engineering would cover maintenance and custodial duties I assume. Most ships have some degree of on-board security forces to repel any boarding parties that might attack, and I don't feel this should be taken from passenger numbers, even on warships. Starfighter Corps would be a relatively easy number to fill out, figure a minimum of 1 pilot per crew required for each star fighter.
Nice list of naval maneuvers! I'll be sure to make use of it at some point.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16172
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Which is why you have gunnery officers, bridge officers, etc... So the tasks of that are spread around. |
I included rules for that earlier, allowing the captain to pass on rules to his subordinate officers, but as the officer in charge, the captain still has to give the command, which his subordinates then carry out. In game terms, the senior officer (with the highest Command skill) eats the MAPs while issuing his orders (and any subsequent bonuses or penalties) to his subordinates, who then make Command rolls of their own to carry out their orders. I included this so that, if necessary, the player characters can form the Command staff of a single capital ship, each with their own area of responsibility.
It's another failing of the Raw that, while it provides some guidelines, it doesn't do enough. Per the RAW (2R&E), Grand Admiral Thrawn can only command a grand total of 12 generic characters, 13 Imperial Navy officers or 15 of the Chimaera's crew. Common sense dictates that there is something missing here (the idea of subordinates, internal organization, etc), yet the RAW does not account for it. And even if it did include the idea of a command structure (rather than just assuming it exists), how many layers would exist for the GM to make Command rolls for until the orders reach the person who actually carries them out? It would be simpler to include dice bonuses for how well trained the subordinates are, how well organized they are, how well equipped they are, the status of their morale, so on and so forth. IMO (and the reason why I started this topic in the first place), it is simpler to treat a group of beings like a ship's crew as a single unit, much like a blaster or a speeder, with the difference being that to control this unit, you use Command instead of Blaster or Repulsorlift Operation.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16172
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | I tried copying the image location and posting it as an [img] |
Do you have a photobucket account or something similar? If not, I will see if I can post them...
| Quote: | | In 2nd Edition R&E they have rules for crew damage in vehicle combat, we could use those numbers and apply it to a percentage of crew in the section, adding in scale bonus of the attacking ship. |
I'll have to take a closer look at that and see if I can find anything I like. I have some ideas for dividing the number of crew by some as-yet-to-be-determined common denominator to generate "crew points" (for lack of a better term), which exist separate from the ship's damage status, but suffer losses equal to the damage inflicted. Unlike damage repair, crew losses would be permanent until replaced...
Maybe I'm just overthinking things again...
| Quote: | | Giving you smaller, more realistic operating numbers for big ships. 37,085 / 4 is a much more reasonable number of bodies required to operate a ship 1km long. |
I would go with 3, personally. Military organizations want to get their money's worth out of their personnel, and having 3/4 of a ship's crew sitting idle for 18 hours just so they can work a 6 hour shift will just not fly. It's my understanding that some armed forces do 12 on / 12 off, but that has long term effects on a person's mental health, especially when you are in a box in space with three years of consumables. With three shifts, you have three 8-hour shifts, which gives the crew ample down time to rest and get ready for their next shift. It also has advantages in providing depth when faced with combat damage and crew losses.
| Quote: | | Does anyone have any rough estimates of flat crew percentages that would seem reasonable? Which job roles are being filled would be a good starting point for figuring out crew distribution. |
IMO, those numbers will fluctuate too much between ships. If you apply a flat percentage of crew across the board, what happens when you get a hospital ship, which will automatically have a larger than normal medical staff? Too much complexity for me; I think the RAW for coordination is fine for small units (at or below squad level) like a group of 4-6 player characters, but when trying to represent coordination of larger units, it just isn't enough. Even fixing it to make it fit results in multiple Command rolls just to generate a single action roll. Plus, the more people you throw in the mix, the more ridiculous the bonuses become. Just because a ship has, say, 200 people staffing the shield generators does not mean they should get a +10D bonus to their Capital Ship Shields roll. It should take 200 people just to get the shields to operate normally, and any bonuses should come from their training and their leadership, not the fact that they poured more people onto the problem.
| Quote: | | Nice list of naval maneuvers! I'll be sure to make use of it at some point. |
Glad you like. I'm open to suggestions if you can think of any I missed. If possible, please try to put them in naval / sci-fi terminology...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Do you have a photobucket account or something similar? If not, I will see if I can post them...
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I don't have a photobucket account, I tried hosting on my google docs to no effect. If you'd host them, that would be wonderful! Thanks!
| Quote: | | IMO, those numbers will fluctuate too much between ships. If you apply a flat percentage of crew across the board, what happens when you get a hospital ship, which will automatically have a larger than normal medical staff? Too much complexity for me; I think the RAW for coordination is fine for small units (at or below squad level) like a group of 4-6 player characters, but when trying to represent coordination of larger units, it just isn't enough. Even fixing it to make it fit results in multiple Command rolls just to generate a single action roll. Plus, the more people you throw in the mix, the more ridiculous the bonuses become. Just because a ship has, say, 200 people staffing the shield generators does not mean they should get a +10D bonus to their Capital Ship Shields roll. It should take 200 people just to get the shields to operate normally, and any bonuses should come from their training and their leadership, not the fact that they poured more people onto the problem. |
I was thinking more in terms of crew taking casualties, if 25% of the crew total are engineers, and engineering takes a hit, then it might suffer some heavy casualties. What if instead of thinking of crew percentage totals, you roll percentile dice to see how many folks in that section get killed? Or, perhaps 1 casualty/injury for every point of damage that penetrates the shield total? Roll on a D6 1-2 Wounded, 3-4 Incapacitated, 5 Mortally Wounded, 6 Killed. But, that system would take rolling for combat effect to a whole new level, in a bad way.
When thinking in terms of RAW with combining actions, I use a mix of 2e and R&E, I use the tables for difficulties and effect of a commander's roll, but in terms of bonus, especially for attack rolls, the commander has to pick whether bonus dice are applied to hit or damage. With RAW combining, I would leave totals to number of cannons firing, or number of repair crew being applied to a particular task. One other use of combine action I could see would be factoring overlapping shields for added protection, which gets done a few times in the novels.
Any other shipboard activity I could see using your basic command rules for on a regular basis.
| Quote: | | Glad you like. I'm open to suggestions if you can think of any I missed. If possible, please try to put them in naval / sci-fi terminology... |
The only thing that comes to mind is
Execute: X
I could see it as executing a pre-planned attack, defensive, or other maneuver ship or fleet wide. Sort of like executing the Picard Maneuver or some other pre-determined thing formed by the tactics skill. I'm having a mind lapse as to exactly what to call it, but it's inspired by the various famous maneuvers from Star Trek. In Star Wars you hear pre-made formations and moves with fighters: Initiate Attack Pattern Delta, etc...
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16172
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | I don't have a photobucket account, I tried hosting on my google docs to no effect. If you'd host them, that would be wonderful! Thanks! |
Here we go. Photobucket is ridiculously easy to set up if you want to post your own images to the forum...
| Quote: | | I was thinking more in terms of crew taking casualties, if 25% of the crew total are engineers, and engineering takes a hit, then it might suffer some heavy casualties. What if instead of thinking of crew percentage totals, you roll percentile dice to see how many folks in that section get killed? Or, perhaps 1 casualty/injury for every point of damage that penetrates the shield total? Roll on a D6 1-2 Wounded, 3-4 Incapacitated, 5 Mortally Wounded, 6 Killed. But, that system would take rolling for combat effect to a whole new level, in a bad way. |
Here's what I'm thinking (EDITED as needed):
1). Throw out the skeleton crew number, and its difficulty modifier
2). Keep total crew number, which is used to calculate casualty rates off the percentages generated from battle damage
3). Use the following chart to generate casualty percentages, based on damage results. Track the overall casualty percentage rate over the course of the battle, and for every 5% increase in casualties, increase the ship's Crew Skill Difficulty level by +1
Destroyed - 100% casualties, except perhaps for some PCs or major NPCs who just barely made it into the escape pods.
Severely Damaged - 60+4D% of the crew out of action.
Heavily Damaged - 35+4D% of the crew out of action.
Lightly Damaged - 2D% of the crew out of action (If the ship receives more than one Lightly Damaged result, roll the percentage again and add it to the existing percentage).
Controls Ionized / Dead - 1D-1% of the crew out of action.
Shields Blown - No casualties.
Roll the dice to generate a percentage, then track the total percentage over the course of the battle. If the ship's damage level goes up a step, re-roll for the new casualty result and add it to the previous total. Any ship that reaches 100% casualties is a drifting hulk. Some crew may still be alive in the wreckage, but the ship as a whole is no longer capable of taking any action.
4). If the ship survives the battle, calculate the total percentage of casualties against the ship's total crew (this has no real in-game effect apart from generating the total number of crew out of action). While penalties from damage may be repaired, any penalties from crew losses are permanent unless they can be rescued, healed or replaced with fresh crew.
5). After a battle, the ship's medical staff will triage the wounded and save as many as possible. Some will be back on their feet within hours, others will need days or weeks of downtime in the ship's medical bays, some will need extensive medical care that can't be provided aboard ship, and others will be dead or dying. Many will not be injured at all; trapped in a damaged section of the ship and unable to escape, they are able to return to duty immediately once they are rescued. Part of the repair process includes the recovery trapped personnel and the medical department working to get the wounded back on their feet as quickly as possible.
I'm working on some ideas as to how the post-battle repair process can return some crew to duty, reducing the overall casualty percentage and (eventually) reducing the skeleton crew penalty. Unfortunately, it's very late here, and I am very tired, so I think I'm just going to sleep on this.
Example: A Star Destroyer with 37,085 crew is Lightly Damaged in combat. In addition to damage to ship's systems, the destroyer takes 9% casualties and is now at +1 difficulty to all rolls. The next round, the destroyer takes another Light Damage hit for 11% casualties, so the destroyer's casualty percentage goes up to 20%, and is now at +4 difficulty for all roles. A few rounds later, the destroyer takes a bad hit and is heavily damaged. In addition to the physical damage, the destroyer also takes 46% casualties. Combined with the previous losses, over half of the destroyer's crew (55%) is out of action, and the ship is now operating under a +11 difficulty modifier to all actions. The destroyer is in serious trouble, but is able to make an emergency hyperspace jump and escape. As part of the repair process, total losses are calculated, and the destroyer has suffered over 20,000 crew killed or otherwise out of action. While many of those counted as casualties can be quickly returned to duty, the destroyer is still under-crewed, and will be operating at below normal levels until the lost crew can be replaced.
| Quote: | | One other use of combine action I could see would be factoring overlapping shields for added protection, which gets done a few times in the novels. |
I'm leaning more in the direction of having the increased shield projection dice generated by the RAW coordination method, but the overlapping of shields will be in the form of the Close Up Formation order, in which pilots bring their ships in very close together, reducing their Maneuverability, but increasing their shield dice...
| Quote: | The only thing that comes to mind is
Execute: X |
How about this?
On My Mark - The captain may spread multiple Commands across several rounds, then activate them all simultaneously with a single order (avoiding the MAP penalties by issuing one Command per round, and also adding the Preparing bonus).
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14030
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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My figures are in % under each line. This is based off the 3 US Navy ships i was on..
Command
10%
Engineering (also includes damage control)
25%
Medical
5%
Security
5%
Operations (computers, communications, navigation, fire control, radar (or sensors here)
20%
Flight Operations
10%
Starfighter Corps
10%
Supply
15%
edited due to calculation error.
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Last edited by garhkal on Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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